Jon sits down for a cannaconvo with Trent Woloveck, Chief Strategy Officer at Jushi. Their conversation touches upon topics like the impact of hemp derived cannabinoids on the state-licensed industry, and consumer purchasing habits via retail and app.
About Trent Woloveck:
Trent brings singular strategic planning and strong business acquisition and cannabis development experience to his role as Chief Strategy Director at Jushi. Trent formerly served as President of TGS National Holdings (an affiliate of The Green Solution), as well as COO at American Cannabis Company, where he worked with his clients to win state cannabis licenses. Trent earned his BS in finance from Miami University.
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Jonathan Purow: Hello and welcome. We’ve been calling these the Catacon Go episode of, you know my podcast cannabis last week for global cannabis times. But i’m kind of want to call it, you know. Discourse with dope people, and this particular guest, I think, is extra dope. You know. Not that i’m biased or anything. I’m your host, John Piro, here. Now, before we get to this awesome interview, I want to note that any opinions I express, or my own, and not those of my law firm, Zuber Lawler.
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Jonathan Purow: for example, if I was to say that my guests, you know company name is one of my top 2 favorite. You know words to say in the cannabis industry. That’d be my own opinion, and not that a Zuber Lawler, and as I always like to do for these video interviews. I like to give a quick prayer to the video chat. Gods! May our wi-fi connections be sturdy.
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Jonathan Purow: All dogs and children like mine that around spring break, remain quiet, and my Amazon prime, and other time I’m. Matt.
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Jonathan Purow: Now I have the pleasure of introducing Trent Wolbeck, the tree that the chief strategy officer at Joshi. Right? It just rolls off the tongue trap. What can I say? I want to thank you for taking the time out of your business busy schedule to join me for this discourse. Slash kind of
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Trent Woloveck: morning, John. I appreciate you having me on and looking forward to the conversation for sure.
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Jonathan Purow: Yeah. So I want to give a little bit of background as to why I was really excited like having Trent on the you know, on the on the podcast, right? So one we had the pleasure, and you know, moderated a panel with you at Benzenega, and then I was, you know, in my job doing some research, for you know, a big fish client in terms of different markets of interest and everything.
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Jonathan Purow: and I stumbled upon. You know this interesting point about, I think the town of West Memphis, or also in Illinois, being next to these population bases in Tennessee, which is not going to be, you know, flipping the the dial to legalization anytime soon. I’m like Aha! I found something big population. They’re going to cross the border, and literally the next day
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Jonathan Purow: an article comes out specifically about this population jumping the border to buy legal weed, and lo and behold, in the article is a quote from none other than my current podcast guest.
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Jonathan Purow: which is why he has the you know the title. He has the word strategy in his title, which I always think basically that anyone who has strategy and their job title is just a very, very smart badass.
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Jonathan Purow: So i’m excited to have you here trends, You know. I think a lot a lot of interesting things to discuss. So the first topic that I want to, you know, touch upon this came up in a prior podcast, and it kind of clicked in my head a little bit. Right. So allow me to set the scene here right. So
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Jonathan Purow: most other, you know, industries, consumer goods and everything are progressing from retail to delivery. Right? You know Amazon is winning by function of, you know, economies of scale, created cost, savings, not having physical locations and convenience, and the pandemic only seem to accelerate this right, so physical locations to delivery. In most industries, the cannabis industry is unique in so many ways.
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Jonathan Purow: and one particular way is for decades. The illicit market had to operate in the shadows, and so it really was deliberately focused.
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Jonathan Purow: But now, as the things are coming into the light. You know all of these state markets are being set up. There is a large emphasis on retail specifically amongst some of the biggest companies in the cannabis industry.
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Jonathan Purow: And yet, you know, in some of the more mature markets, you know, we are seeing delivery as becoming becoming more popular in terms of numbers, their states coming online now, like New York and New Jersey, that will have delivery from the beginning
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Jonathan Purow: in certain respects. So i’m kind of curious to know, like your thoughts on this and some of us like a great overview of the industry. You know what we’re gonna see develop
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Jonathan Purow: in the industry in terms of retail and delivery and the roles that they’re gonna play. You know that we see now, and why there’s such an emphasis on retail, and how things will develop in your opinion.
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Trent Woloveck: Yeah, sure. And you know, thanks again for having me and all the all the kind words, you know.
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Trent Woloveck: Sometimes i’m lucky. Sometimes i’m smart, you know i’ll. I’ll say i’ll take both, but you know, as as far as retail goes in cannabis. I I think it’s a a super interesting
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Trent Woloveck: kind of dichotomy of how people in a consumer thinks both from a a patient perspective and then an adult use consumer, I think you know. There, there’s 2 different consumers that are in cannabis right now, and so I, you know I think it’s first important to acknowledge. You know that that piece.
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Trent Woloveck: you know, going going off of medical first.
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Trent Woloveck: I think you know that that’s really what we’ve built this industry up from. You know a plant that has able is is able to, you know, help, alleviate certain, you know, qualifying conditions, and and what people want to get out of. And so, you know, I I think a retail storefront in that scenario is extremely important, as you open markets up to medical cannabis and quite frankly adult use a initial adult use cannabis
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Trent Woloveck: markets, because
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Trent Woloveck: you know, unlike Amazon, who’s started delivering books, You know everybody knew what a book was. You know. Books weren’t outlawed all those. Some people are trying to outlaw books now, but you know, pull another part. We’re not going to go into that. And and so
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Trent Woloveck: you know I I I think I think that’s a first point of delineation that we need to look at and understand from a a cannabis perspective, which is, you know this has been something that you know a lot of people Aren’t familiar familiar with, or if they are familiar with cannabis, it’s
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Trent Woloveck: hey? My dealer kicked me down this, you know. Dine bag of blue dream. We don’t even know if it was Blue dream. But you know that that’s kind of what you know has been taught to the masses about cannabis. Just consume flower, or.
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Trent Woloveck: you know, consume of vape and and you’re good. You’re just gonna get high, and so there is so much more to these products now than that. And so, I think you know, having a retail storefront for for medical. You know somebody that’s trying to, you know.
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Trent Woloveck: help with their insomnia, or have chronic pain, or, you know, name the litany of other things that it it can help with.
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Trent Woloveck: You know that that retail storefront for that education, I think, is something that’s super important to have that dialogue between, You know, in Virginia, where we have pharmacists in Pennsylvania, where we have pharmacists like real medical professionals that went to school and got trained on this stuff.
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Trent Woloveck: Having that conversation is something that’s, you know, super important as people get. You know more aware of what cannabis can do. So you know, I I think that’s an important piece as you get into the more mature adult use markets, you know. Obviously people are going to be.
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Trent Woloveck: you know, more and more comfortable with what they’ve purchased in the past.
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Trent Woloveck: However, you know they still want to come in and swing by, you know. Pick up.
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Trent Woloveck: you know their cannabis on their way home from the grocery store from work, or what have you? You know, Liquor? There’s drizzly, but I still go to the liquor store quite a bit.
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Trent Woloveck: A alcohol and prescription drugs I feel like are just a little bit different than you know. Books and groceries quite frankly. And so
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Trent Woloveck: with that being said, though a retail spot that is, on main and main.
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Trent Woloveck: In a, you know, high travel, high density area, or out in the suburbs where there’s not as many of them at retail still works for sure, even in a mature medical market or a mature adult use market.
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Trent Woloveck: And so you know that that’s that’s a huge positive, and you know. Keep in mind. A retail storefront in Cannabis is not just
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Trent Woloveck: a retail storefront for juicy.
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Trent Woloveck: where we have, you know, 66 plus percent of our business ordered through our e-commerce platform.
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Trent Woloveck: We just launched an app called the Hello Club, which is our you know, Rewards and loyalty program as well where you know 10 of our orders come through.
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Trent Woloveck: That’s still a digital platform. I I can’t deliver in some markets I can deliver in other markets.
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Trent Woloveck: But I can tell you, in a state like Virginia, where I can deliver.
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Trent Woloveck: I’m not delivering, you know, but maybe 10% of my
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Trent Woloveck: my revenue through my retail stores. People still want to come in and pick pick up their cannabis. You know you’ve seen companies in California try to build a delivery system and and fail quite frankly. Pub goes. Diana Med is one that pops straight to my head, and so
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Trent Woloveck: you know it’s it’s a it’s an interesting conversation, but as you think about Amazon. And you think about how people want to get
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Trent Woloveck: delivery quicker and quicker and quicker first. It was like, okay, if I get delivery in a week. Yeah, that’s okay. It’s not like the best, but it’s okay. And then.
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Trent Woloveck: you know, then it was 2 days now it’s like 2 h. And so the business that Amazon’s trying to
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Trent Woloveck: figure out is that kind of last mile Delivery is what what we you know read and hear about all the time. And so I view Cannabis delivery, not as an Amazon thing, because
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Trent Woloveck: they bought whole foods well
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Trent Woloveck: for Litany of different reasons, but they wanted to have a retail distribution point to get to the masses as quickly as possible. That, I mean, that was the real big reason why. You know, Bezos did that transaction.
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Trent Woloveck: I view
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Trent Woloveck: cannabis more like dominoes juices beyond. Hello, stores! And, as we continue to, you know, ramp up retail stores.
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Trent Woloveck: You better be able to deliver your cannabis, you know, quicker than you can get a a domino’s pizza. So
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Trent Woloveck: building a retail channel and outlet from a technology perspective which is what we’re doing modeled after dominoes with using the dominoes as the hub and spoke. It is kind of how
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Trent Woloveck: you know.
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Trent Woloveck: We think that industry will will progress from a delivery delivery perspective, because people want cannabis now. And so
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Trent Woloveck: I think that I think that’s a very important delivery aspect, moving forward as people continue to think through and strategize about
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Trent Woloveck: how Cannabis delivery is gonna work.
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Trent Woloveck: And then look, your retail store has, you know, 5 distribution points. People can come in and shop on the floor. They can do an express pick up.
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Trent Woloveck: They can do curbside. They’re going to be able to do drive through, and then you have delivery, and so that
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Trent Woloveck: one brick and mortar retail store is not just one brick and mortar retail store that turns into a you know. 5 spoke. You know distribution, Hub, for the business.
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Jonathan Purow: I I feel like there are only maybe 8 points on that that I want to jump off of, because that was a fantastic, comprehensive answer. So here, so you talk about, You know you mentioned the 2 different types of consumers, and in that, you know, instance, you were talking about medical versus adult use right, you know, but the other I think you know way that people slice down consumers in terms of products and everything are what I like to call, because, you know, this is all about the persistent pursuit of perfect pop puns and awesome alliteration.
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Jonathan Purow: The can, of course.
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Jonathan Purow: typically flower smokers right, you know. They’ll go down to the detail of knowing the strains, and possibly the terpenes that they like, you know, and the kind of curious that you know, as like Secretary of the Cannabis Beverage Association beverages are small, but growing right. The people and some of these folks in kind of curious to straight up will never smoke anything
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Jonathan Purow: so edibles, beverages, you know they sometimes you know those cater to them more so i’m curious to know your thoughts. And also me, you actually have data from this app, which I find very interesting. You know the percentage of your
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Jonathan Purow: you know orders that come in via that. Do you have thoughts in terms of how you see. You know these 2 groups
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Jonathan Purow: ordering from the app versus coming in in the store, and the different types of products. And I’m: curious to know
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Jonathan Purow: what you’ve kind of, you know, noticed and trends that you you see with respect to that breakdown.
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Trent Woloveck: Yeah, so
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Trent Woloveck: it I laugh at this question every single time I get asked it. Because if you go, if you go back and listen to my podcast in like 2,013, 2,015.
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Trent Woloveck: I was one of those guys that were like
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Trent Woloveck: ura like, you know, vapes and concentrates and infuse products are gonna take over cannabis. And you know you’re gonna see like a 70 30 mix for you know.
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Trent Woloveck: other products versus flower. And boy, was I wrong, like, you know. Thank God, I didn’t do that. You’re
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Trent Woloveck: You know your your guess the future. Maybe i’ll do that later. But, like you know, luckily I didn’t say that again, because I you know, I’d probably look back in 5 years and have my foot in my mouth again, because, look.
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Trent Woloveck: we, we saw it in Colorado. You know where you know as the president of the Green Solution, and I think by the time we left we had 20 plus stores. and I, you know, built out and looked at businesses.
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Trent Woloveck: you know, across the country quite frankly across the world, and every single time, no matter what
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Trent Woloveck: flower just sticks at that. 55 to 65, if you include pre roles and infuse payrolls, which I do call that flower.
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Trent Woloveck: You know you’re you’re around that 65, you know. Maybe down to 60, maybe 55, if you know
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Trent Woloveck: if you’re if you’re too high of price on flower.
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Trent Woloveck: because you know, desolate vape usually comes down quicker. But
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Trent Woloveck: but yeah, so so you know.
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Trent Woloveck: from a a data perspective, from a customer perspective, You know, I like to say we have. You know, Beth Cannon’s Almanac. We, you know we’ve seen the future in other States, and we can prepare for that in
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Trent Woloveck: You know new markets that we’re getting into, or you know, markets that are ramping up. And so, you know, I don’t need to sit there and produce.
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Trent Woloveck: You know
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Trent Woloveck: something that’s not going to sell.
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Trent Woloveck: Yeah versus, you know. Let’s focus on producing.
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Trent Woloveck: You know, vap cartridges, and you know the best possible flower. You know you you talk about.
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Trent Woloveck: You know the can. A curious consumer versus the you know person that the the heavy, user those those people will price the the people that know cannabis will price shop people.
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Trent Woloveck: you know, that are right around in their general area. They’re gonna hunt for.
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Trent Woloveck: you know the new hot strain, if you will, and they’re gonna look for the highest potency. Quite frankly. That’s just how those people shop.
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Trent Woloveck: Nothing wrong with that. But the the what we’ve also seen. That’s super interesting
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Trent Woloveck: is, as we’ve seen, price, compression happen, and pretty much every single market
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Trent Woloveck: those people will look at buying, announce. and hey! That ounce may have. you know a 17 to 20% tester of Thc.
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Trent Woloveck: But if you’re selling it for a 100 or 150 bucks.
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Trent Woloveck: it doesn’t matter. And so you’re you’re starting to see that with you know us as Joshi, where you know we have.
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Trent Woloveck: or 3 different tiers of flower for our our 8,
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Trent Woloveck: and at that’s called the bank, and then we have our value. Flower called
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Trent Woloveck: sachet
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Trent Woloveck: in Sashay Kicks Ass Bank does. Okay.
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Trent Woloveck: But you know we’re getting ready to to launch, You know, hijinks, which is a premium brand.
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Trent Woloveck: but we gotta find the right cult of ours. We gotta grow the right plants. We gotta get the right test. We gotta do the right trimming. Do the right caring. Have the right packaging so that we can, you know, build that upper echelon brand and price points, so people will will purchase that. And so you know
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Trent Woloveck: that’s a big deal for consumers today, and, as markets, you know, continue to mature. And so, you know, we
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Trent Woloveck: we are doing that. We are tailing our brand portfolio, our product portfolio to that. But look, the
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Trent Woloveck: cannabis curious consumers.
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Trent Woloveck: They do like their you know their dummies, the things that are discreet, but they like tummies. They don’t care for ice creams or peanut butters, or hot sauces, or you know. Name one of the crazy things you can put cannabis in pretty much anything quite frankly. But you know
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Trent Woloveck: there are certain skews that sell, and that’s, you know, chocolates and gummies, and you know
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Trent Woloveck: I think there’s different. There’s but I don’t think I know there’s differentiating conversations and thoughts and juicy around drinks Look, United States is a huge consumer of drinks.
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Trent Woloveck: but that was alcohol. What’s the biggest growing drink?
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Trent Woloveck: Kind of industry or sub industry in
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Trent Woloveck: in in drink right now. It’s not out. I mean, it’s growing like 2030, 40% year over year. And so.
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Trent Woloveck: you know, i’m a drinker. I like. I have no problem, saying that I enjoyed drinking because I enjoy getting a bus.
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Trent Woloveck: but I I also know what it comes with a hangover the next day. Calories, all that stuff.
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Trent Woloveck: And so, you know.
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Trent Woloveck: if I go to the bar, and they’re like, hey, do you want a non alcoholic beer? I’m like.
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Trent Woloveck: Yeah, I’d rather just drink a water, because I want the buzz. But if you’re telling me I could get a buzz with cannabis and Thc.
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Trent Woloveck: And not have any calories or not have any hangover, which is no what we know happens, at least for me. You know, I I think there’s a market there
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Trent Woloveck: now. You know how fast is that adoption happen?
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Trent Woloveck: You know people talk about how you know of cannabis. Msos always have.
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Trent Woloveck: You know these monopolies.
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Trent Woloveck: Oh, please, if you walk into a bar. You know what they sell. Alcohol alcohol has a monopoly, and so you know, done away with all the other stuff. And so you know, I I think Cannabis drinks with normalization.
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Trent Woloveck: There will be a disruption. I I don’t know how big it will be, but
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Trent Woloveck: if you just think about it from a macro perspective.
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Trent Woloveck: People just enjoy going out to drink. They like to have a drink in hand if they’re in an awkward situation. What do you do? You put a drink up to your face, and you and you start drinking, and so you know all those things will will come to fruition, and I just don’t know.
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Trent Woloveck: you know, as you know, our generation and younger, you know, continues to see the the effects of alcohol and the benefits of cannabis.
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Trent Woloveck: and you want to buzz from an a recreational perspective.
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Trent Woloveck: Cannabis seems to make sense. From that perspective.
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Jonathan Purow: I I mean the numbers are stark when I cover, you know, like the Pop Holes in terms of you know, millennials and Gen. Z. The percentages by which they favor cannabis over alcohol. I mean, it is very, very stark, and I don’t know I can talk about it.
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Jonathan Purow: I mean it. It is not the close, and I think that that’s you know part of the thing that we’re seeing in terms of why and when progress is made is because
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Jonathan Purow: generational changes in the ages of politics, right as the head of the North Carolina forgot, if the State Center or not a Republican, you know, who was the impediment, I think, to certain things progressing there. And then there are new elections, and he changes to into the sense that the new quote was.
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Jonathan Purow: It might happen now because their new there’s new blood here in this legislative body.
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Jonathan Purow: You know there is younger blood always coming in, and the and the you know the attitudes, and you know preferences are so stark, as people get younger in terms of pre preferring cannabis over alcohol, and my thing look in terms of
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Jonathan Purow: in terms of beverages. I mean, think about the one single sector that will in the industry and products that will benefit the most when eventually something does happen. Federally.
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Jonathan Purow: the economies of scale that all of a sudden will be available. That’s one of the things that excites me most about it. And I need to say, Trent as a cannabis trademark, IP lawyer and geek.
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Jonathan Purow: I, Jenks might be one of the best brand names I’ve heard, or pun, and just like that is fantastic. I have to tip my cap, I get to say juicy, Hi, Jenks, or whatever I mean, like you guys, you know how to bring the the brand. Name game, man. It’s what happens when your chief creative director has 1, 2 Grammys, you know. There’s just people that are.
00:22:23.600 –> 00:22:35.880
Trent Woloveck: you know, special when it comes to that stuff, and you know we do a lot of data research. We do a lot of questions around our consumers. We we have, I mean, we have 50 plus 1,000 people at our disposal
00:22:36.050 –> 00:22:54.540
Trent Woloveck: so like. Let’s figure out what works that Tasteology is another example. You know. We’re going through tasteology, and i’m like oh, my gosh! That’s just a terrible name for a brand, and then he’s like, No, it tests great. I’m like let’s just call it.
00:22:54.540 –> 00:22:59.710
Trent Woloveck: you know one infuse like the number one, because, you know, back in the phone book days
00:22:59.810 –> 00:23:01.830
Trent Woloveck: people were like a a auto
00:23:01.840 –> 00:23:06.420
Trent Woloveck: or a a whatever, because you wanted to be at the top of the list, and how
00:23:06.500 –> 00:23:13.480
Trent Woloveck: you know it works with your e-commerce. It goes by alphabetical order, and so I was like. Let’s just put one up there.
00:23:13.710 –> 00:23:24.670
Trent Woloveck: No, no, no! So we we long story short, we launched tasteology in Massachusetts with our gummies. and we’re now selling 2 and a half times the amount of gummies
00:23:24.900 –> 00:23:35.280
Trent Woloveck: that we had our old brand that we took over from the existing operators. And so you know it’s. It’s just It’s part of the process. But you know
00:23:35.680 –> 00:23:48.430
Trent Woloveck: not to to the juicy horn too much. But when when you have the right people in the right places making the right decisions, you you get the proper outcomes, and that’s you know what we’ve prided ourselves on since
00:23:48.510 –> 00:23:52.040
Trent Woloveck: you know the foundation of juicy, and you know 2,018. So
00:23:52.250 –> 00:24:04.560
Trent Woloveck: that’s great. So we’re we’re talking about like spoken audio book crime easier or like legitimate music.
00:24:04.590 –> 00:24:12.250
Trent Woloveck: he won the the grammy for it. His name Santre is Newman. He he does. He does.
00:24:12.380 –> 00:24:19.900
Trent Woloveck: you know he does pitch pitchers, for you know all the big rock bands Snow Patrol.
00:24:20.110 –> 00:24:37.520
Trent Woloveck: Oh, man, i’m not a big rock guy, so i’m i’m struggling. It was a little aside, because you know her, you know. I’m a big music guy, so that is a very, very cool. He’s a good guy to have on your podcast, too. By the way, he could talk to you for hours upon hours.
00:24:38.420 –> 00:24:49.620
Jonathan Purow: Alright, there is a lot to keep in mind there. Yeah, I know you’re too tuning that you she horn there like you said so. I always, you know, since you are someone who, you know.
00:24:49.630 –> 00:25:09.500
Jonathan Purow: strategizes in the industry and keep on leaning into that. You know a a huge thing, obviously, and one that is idiosyncratic to the us. I’m. Here to see I was going to shift. Let’s talk about hemp. Derive kind of annoyed, you know, legalize essentially by the farm bill. All sorts of things that developed since then, you know, I mean you have
00:25:09.500 –> 00:25:23.470
Jonathan Purow: psychoactive products available at gas stations all over the place, not subject to the same type of regulation or testing whatsoever you have. You know, court decision saying, delta 8 is okay and legal.
00:25:23.470 –> 00:25:41.950
Jonathan Purow: Then you have something recent, you know. I’m just kind of giving this over for you here. You know the da stepping in when we’re talking about T. H. CEO. Right, you know. Just weeks after some scientists said, hey, you know you smoke this stuff, and might pull coal in your lungs just like the you know, the vaping crisis of 2,018, and the unregulated market.
00:25:41.950 –> 00:25:56.300
Jonathan Purow: And then you have, you know, other recycle act kind of noise like Hhc. That you know might, you know, go through drug tests, and you know all of this impacts. The folks who operate in these State license markets.
00:25:56.300 –> 00:26:04.290
Jonathan Purow: and which we were, you know, struggling in some respects in terms of, you know, crashing prices. I’m curious to know your thoughts on that interplay
00:26:04.290 –> 00:26:19.560
Jonathan Purow: when things might shift, because I know you like to keep You know I on political things. I My own theories about how you know the 23 farm bill is where something will happen in this regard. So I Just want to hear you Riff man, about that topic.
00:26:20.060 –> 00:26:21.930
Trent Woloveck: Yeah.
00:26:22.580 –> 00:26:29.090
Trent Woloveck: I gotta say it’s just it’s disheartening and saddening quite frankly. You know somebody that
00:26:29.360 –> 00:26:35.560
Trent Woloveck: you know has been full time in the industry since 2,012, and made my first investment in 2,009, and
00:26:35.820 –> 00:26:39.330
Trent Woloveck: you know all the hard work that a lot of people have done.
00:26:39.600 –> 00:26:45.910
Trent Woloveck: you know, around cannabis, and you know, bringing it above board and into a regulated market.
00:26:47.610 –> 00:26:50.210
Trent Woloveck: People that use shortcuts.
00:26:50.860 –> 00:26:57.580
Trent Woloveck: We’ll have their day in time to answer those questions. And people that think
00:26:57.590 –> 00:27:03.320
Trent Woloveck: that just because it’s point 3% dry weight for
00:27:03.440 –> 00:27:09.260
Trent Woloveck: it, hemp and biomass and mix and blah, blah, blah, blah blah!
00:27:10.740 –> 00:27:16.300
Trent Woloveck: They’ll have their day and time that they’re going to have to answer some pretty hard questions, because
00:27:16.370 –> 00:27:23.890
Trent Woloveck: when I look at the pharmaceutical pharmacology, and I’ve had a lot of people. Look at this.
00:27:24.170 –> 00:27:40.010
Trent Woloveck: And and oh, by the way, just this past weekend I got blasted on social media on Instagram on Facebook. about a product that had 2 milligrams of Thc. Per can and 4 milligrams of Cbd. Per can.
00:27:41.340 –> 00:27:54.480
Trent Woloveck: And they were saying that that’s below point 3% Thc. When you talk about active cannonoids or any active ingredient. it it’s the dry way.
00:27:54.650 –> 00:27:55.790
Trent Woloveck: And so.
00:27:55.870 –> 00:28:05.000
Trent Woloveck: you know, when you have a pill, and I have a I take a Tylenol 500 Mgs, and I take a Tylenol 100 Mgs.
00:28:05.130 –> 00:28:12.880
Trent Woloveck: The pills the same size, the weights the same size, but the active ingredient is different. So they treat those 2 pills different. And so.
00:28:13.300 –> 00:28:20.270
Trent Woloveck: you know, I I think you know these people that are trying to run. Shortcuts are going to be in trouble.
00:28:20.400 –> 00:28:31.820
Trent Woloveck: you know. I get that. There are people trying to do it above board, and I think they’re doing it the correct way. But when I see a product that gets funneled into Virginia.
00:28:31.950 –> 00:28:39.500
Trent Woloveck: and it says 60 Mgs. Of active cannabinoids per dose. and then I look at the C of a.
00:28:40.040 –> 00:28:46.870
Trent Woloveck: and it clearly states that the C of a. It says 71 milligrams per dose.
00:28:47.290 –> 00:28:50.240
Trent Woloveck: you know i’m good at math. That’s
00:28:50.280 –> 00:28:58.600
Trent Woloveck: It’s an 18 plus percent difference between what it’s saying on the package and what it’s actually in the bottle.
00:29:00.490 –> 00:29:13.580
Trent Woloveck: I I could never pass that through any state testing in the work it like in the Us. Let alone the world. I did definitely not. And so like, okay, there’s there’s like knock number one.
00:29:13.880 –> 00:29:22.130
Trent Woloveck: Okay, in Virginia, where I have 6 months for product kind of the standard, you know. Best practice for cannabis is kind of 12 months
00:29:23.860 –> 00:29:25.930
Trent Woloveck: that that c. Of a said
00:29:26.100 –> 00:29:32.970
Trent Woloveck: January of 2,020 didn’t even give you an exact date, and then it said it’s good until January of 2,023.
00:29:34.160 –> 00:29:47.480
Trent Woloveck: Well, that that seems kind of weird. But do you have stability testing on that? Do you like you know all all these things from a consumer safety perspective, and then the last, but not the least, and and probably my favorite. So
00:29:47.680 –> 00:29:49.520
Trent Woloveck: this was a tink shirt.
00:29:49.600 –> 00:30:02.720
Trent Woloveck: It’s in a 100 ml jar. So do you know the size of a 5 h energy? It’s 57 Ml: so a 100 Ml. Is not that much bigger? I mean, I shoot back a 5 h energy. No problem.
00:30:02.800 –> 00:30:10.680
Trent Woloveck: any adult you can any adult can so about maybe a little bit more than, or a little less than double the size.
00:30:11.230 –> 00:30:17.290
Trent Woloveck: There were 216 milligrams of Thc. In that bottle.
00:30:18.870 –> 00:30:33.790
Trent Woloveck: and so if if there’s a truck driver, let’s just say that’s you know, man, I heard Cbd helps me relax, and I’m just gonna you know, drive a little bit more. And then i’m gonna pull over. He just shoots back half that bottle, because well, it’s half the size of a 5 h energy.
00:30:34.210 –> 00:30:40.300
Trent Woloveck: He just took down a 100 plus, or she just took down a 100 plus Mgs of Thc.
00:30:40.660 –> 00:30:43.770
Trent Woloveck: I don’t care who you are. You’re hot.
00:30:43.880 –> 00:30:57.650
Trent Woloveck: and and so let alone. If they chug back the whole thing, which was 218 milligrams, and so you know, I I don’t mention the name. I don’t mention the product on purpose. It’s just a public safety thing.
00:30:58.290 –> 00:31:05.200
Trent Woloveck: but none. None of those 3 items would fly in a regulated cannabis market. It just doesn’t.
00:31:05.410 –> 00:31:07.050
Trent Woloveck: Oh, by the way.
00:31:07.120 –> 00:31:17.510
Trent Woloveck: the cannabinoids were tested in Wisconsin, and the everything else was tested in Colorado, you know that’s a whole. Another question and can of worms, but
00:31:17.940 –> 00:31:26.670
Trent Woloveck: it’s it’s interesting, you know. There, there, i’m sure there are good actors within the hemp space that are trying to do it correctly. They’re still not.
00:31:26.720 –> 00:31:34.200
Trent Woloveck: But then you have the bad actors that are making the Delta 8, the Delta, 0, the Delta X, the Delta, whatever
00:31:34.260 –> 00:31:36.190
Trent Woloveck: that are getting people high.
00:31:36.530 –> 00:31:44.140
Trent Woloveck: you know. I I hate to keep going back to Virginia. I’ll use Pennsylvania. But there are Gummies delta, 8 gummies
00:31:44.290 –> 00:31:51.900
Trent Woloveck: that had heroin and fetin all in them in in in Pennsylvania, and outside of Philly.
00:31:52.000 –> 00:31:56.100
Trent Woloveck: I mean that’s the opposite of what we’re trying to do.
00:31:56.190 –> 00:32:09.000
Trent Woloveck: We’re trying to have safe product for people to consume that want to consume cannabis in the proper way that that’s the complete opposite of everything People in this industry have worked for, and it’s
00:32:09.060 –> 00:32:16.270
Trent Woloveck: It’s disgusting quite frankly. And if you don’t think that it’s the cartels and organized crime
00:32:16.430 –> 00:32:19.240
Trent Woloveck: running that distribution channel.
00:32:19.930 –> 00:32:28.180
Trent Woloveck: You’re just naive. Those people want to get you as high as humanly possible. Get you fixed on a kick, so you come back.
00:32:28.360 –> 00:32:32.640
Trent Woloveck: and and then they don’t care if you die. They’re just on to the next person.
00:32:33.200 –> 00:32:38.150
Trent Woloveck: I I do care of people that you know. I I do care if a 4 year old eats
00:32:38.340 –> 00:32:45.310
Trent Woloveck: his mom’s gummies and dies. That’s not a good thing. That’s what happened in Virginia. And so
00:32:45.340 –> 00:32:46.190
Trent Woloveck: you know
00:32:47.380 –> 00:32:54.250
Trent Woloveck: we’re. We’re running around in circles, because, you know, politicians, both at the State level and at the Federal level.
00:32:54.290 –> 00:33:05.470
Trent Woloveck: want to bury their head in the sand and just say this isn’t in my community. It doesn’t impact my people, and that’s just wrong. 92 of the constituents want
00:33:05.690 –> 00:33:10.550
Trent Woloveck: Federal normalization around medical cannabis 68%
00:33:10.660 –> 00:33:23.320
Trent Woloveck: on a Gallup poll, not like some schmucky cannabis poll. A Gallup Poll said. They want normalization of adult use cannabis in the United States. It. It it like
00:33:23.540 –> 00:33:39.870
Trent Woloveck: you talked about it, and you touched on it earlier. This this isn’t a bipartisan thing anymore. That’s that’s easy. This is young verse, old point blank. This is young verse, old, and the old people, you know, still think they’re Nancy Reagan, and they’re Ronald Reagan.
00:33:39.900 –> 00:33:43.480
Trent Woloveck: That’s where we’re at today. Unfortunately, in politics.
00:33:44.600 –> 00:33:46.210
Jonathan Purow: Yes.
00:33:46.210 –> 00:34:09.650
Jonathan Purow: once again, many, many jump off points. There is not just one galaxy right. These are gallup polls now for years running consistent support growing incrementally. And in all those demographics I like to put out, you know, stats in the podcast that I call like conservative grandma stats like the ones that could help convince your conservative grammar to be down with it. And even that demographic, now plurality favorite
00:34:09.650 –> 00:34:20.590
Jonathan Purow: right, every single demographic, no matter how you slice it religious, you know. Social conservatives also plurality favor it. So I think that that’s really interesting. Do you think that
00:34:20.610 –> 00:34:35.219
Jonathan Purow: so? I think you touch upon a lot of you know the issues with, you know, hemter out kind of annoyance, and how the products are being sold and marketed and the large risks there actual physical risk to people and their health, you know, and certainly risks of
00:34:35.219 –> 00:34:54.080
Jonathan Purow: not helping the stigma that we’re trying to fight here in terms of how these products can actually help people, and should be considered, you know, a drug just like alcohol and less harmful one at that. So now my question is, this is also now the hemter out kind of annoyed. This is a multi multi 1 billiondollar market.
00:34:54.199 –> 00:34:56.780
Jonathan Purow: It’s employees a lot of people.
00:34:56.860 –> 00:35:01.080
Jonathan Purow: and you have. And so my question is, when do you think
00:35:01.080 –> 00:35:20.850
Jonathan Purow: you know that there may be some changes? You know this upcoming farm, bill? And my question is, is it I I not the equal of like too big to fail? But is it too entrenched to fully, you know, Go away when there could be a lot of lobbying dollars spent to continue that industry in much the same way that it currently is operating
00:35:20.880 –> 00:35:23.090
Jonathan Purow: for your thoughts on that.
00:35:24.450 –> 00:35:25.770
Trent Woloveck: So
00:35:26.850 –> 00:35:27.700
Trent Woloveck: look.
00:35:28.250 –> 00:35:36.990
Trent Woloveck: The States are having to take this into their own hands again, just like just like cannabis. And so you’re seeing a lot of states
00:35:37.280 –> 00:35:39.130
Trent Woloveck: start to enact.
00:35:39.300 –> 00:35:48.040
Trent Woloveck: You know, rules, Regs legislation to protect consumers, and rightfully. So
00:35:48.390 –> 00:35:52.320
Trent Woloveck: you know I I hear you about the Hemp farmers, and
00:35:52.590 –> 00:35:55.880
Trent Woloveck: you know all those jobs, and you know
00:35:55.990 –> 00:36:03.520
Trent Woloveck: dollars. John John, do you know how big the industrial hemp industry actually is?
00:36:04.020 –> 00:36:11.200
Trent Woloveck: What the disruption of that technology could do? I’ve done is that we’ve done a study on this 7 trillion dollars.
00:36:11.510 –> 00:36:14.000
Trent Woloveck: We aren’t, even as you know.
00:36:14.020 –> 00:36:21.330
Trent Woloveck: a cough on the shoe of that ass. It’s 7 trillion dollars. When you look at you know.
00:36:21.440 –> 00:36:28.050
Trent Woloveck: building materials, you know. Other energy forms. All that stuff is 7 trillion dollars.
00:36:28.420 –> 00:36:36.640
Trent Woloveck: We’re half. We’re happy as cannabis, if that’s like, you know, a 100 billion. 150 billionI think that’s like the top end of the market. And so, like.
00:36:36.910 –> 00:36:44.150
Trent Woloveck: you know, he hemp was never, You know, the hemp bill was never around consumable cannabinoids.
00:36:44.320 –> 00:36:47.460
Trent Woloveck: It was never around active cannabinoids.
00:36:47.570 –> 00:36:55.510
Trent Woloveck: It was around industrial hem. My, my, my my paper should be printed on hem, not cotton.
00:36:56.070 –> 00:37:08.130
Trent Woloveck: Okay, My car should be made out of hemp. Not, you know, blah blah blah carbon fiber. My house should be made out of Hemp creek not out of blah blah, blah, blah blah! All those things
00:37:08.200 –> 00:37:15.280
Trent Woloveck: that that those are real, you know, industries, I mean, that’s a 7 trillion dollar disruptor.
00:37:15.380 –> 00:37:28.620
Trent Woloveck: So you know the 100 billiondollars or the couple of 1 billiondollars that’s you know. the ingestible, he, or whatever you want to call it. There’s there’s plenty of other opportunity
00:37:28.690 –> 00:37:42.210
Trent Woloveck: for those folks in those jobs to be able to do what it actually was supposed to do. So I i’m not a I’m not a person here to put people out of jobs. I’m a problem solver, I mean, that’s what
00:37:42.220 –> 00:37:45.120
Trent Woloveck: my job is.
00:37:45.160 –> 00:37:56.530
Trent Woloveck: you know I get. I get paid to see around corners, and I get paid to to to know what’s gonna happen in 30 days and 60 days and a year of 5 years. What what have you?
00:37:56.590 –> 00:37:57.780
Trent Woloveck: And so
00:37:59.000 –> 00:38:01.730
Trent Woloveck: this idea or this concept that
00:38:02.090 –> 00:38:06.280
Trent Woloveck: you know hemp industry dies because they lose
00:38:06.300 –> 00:38:08.740
Trent Woloveck: active cannabis. Production
00:38:08.860 –> 00:38:15.310
Trent Woloveck: is a farce, and in in a big one at that. I I’ll give you one more example.
00:38:15.420 –> 00:38:23.800
Trent Woloveck: So Toodak. You know the people that used to develop film who built like a whole city outside of Rochester, New York.
00:38:24.910 –> 00:38:25.770
Trent Woloveck: So
00:38:25.850 –> 00:38:27.620
Trent Woloveck: President Trump
00:38:28.000 –> 00:38:33.710
Trent Woloveck: gave them the right to make active ingredients for pharmaceutical
00:38:34.000 –> 00:38:37.400
Trent Woloveck: process for pharmaceutical. You know, groups
00:38:37.780 –> 00:38:48.420
Trent Woloveck: that stock went from like 30 cents to, I think, like 6 7 8 9 bucks overnight. So if you want to produce cannabis to put them into a system
00:38:48.450 –> 00:38:58.170
Trent Woloveck: just like Kodak could have into the pharmaceutical system. He, he! People, can do that in Virginia I can buy any can of annoyed outside of Thc.
00:38:58.420 –> 00:39:06.910
Trent Woloveck: To be able to make a product to support small farmers and and and processors. And so this this whole concept, this whole idea that
00:39:07.150 –> 00:39:14.080
Trent Woloveck: you know juicy or Msos, are trying to, you know, Kill this or kill that. It’s it’s just
00:39:14.140 –> 00:39:25.140
Trent Woloveck: factually wrong, because we we’re providing solutions and an outlet. I’m trying to ensure a 4 year old doesn’t die again, you know, because
00:39:25.660 –> 00:39:41.380
Trent Woloveck: whether it’s right or wrong, I mean that’s blood on my hands. I I you know I have a license. I have a solution in Virginia That’s a weight on my shoulder every single day, and and I I have a solution, and I, when people aren’t able to help.
00:39:41.730 –> 00:39:45.810
Trent Woloveck: you know. Get there, or don’t want to get there. That that’s very painful for me.
00:39:46.960 –> 00:39:59.640
Jonathan Purow: So you know I mean, Trent. You said there right that your job is, you get paid to know and try and predict what’s gonna happen in the future. So I think that means that now, as we’re nearing the end of our time. It’s. We got to circle back now
00:39:59.640 –> 00:40:28.700
Jonathan Purow: and and box you into some predictions that you make that we’re going to publish publicly and circle back to periodically to see how right and wrong you work. How can it go passing around? I no, I always like to play right. I still Haven’t settled the palm. Whether or not we’re going to call it toker, domest, or smoke, or domest. Dub yourself what you will, and I mean you’ve alluded to some of your thoughts about the future. But i’m just curious to know, and any little facet of the industry or otherwise. What is something that you find
00:40:28.700 –> 00:40:58.180
Trent Woloveck: interesting, some trend or something, some prediction that you want to make about legalization on a Federal level. And the timeline once again, just want to hear you, you know, Riff, with that stri strategic mind to viewers or complex strategy. If you want me to go with really really dated snl Presidential reference. I’ll go with to Tokradamus. I like that one better just because my name starts with a. T. Nothing, nothing less than that. We I appreciate the alliteration here. So yeah.
00:40:59.690 –> 00:41:02.160
Trent Woloveck: look. I think
00:41:04.230 –> 00:41:09.390
Trent Woloveck: I think we’ve been in a really tough patch for Cannabis. and
00:41:09.500 –> 00:41:13.640
Trent Woloveck: I’ve I’ve said this before, and i’ll i’ll say it again.
00:41:16.120 –> 00:41:18.440
Trent Woloveck: The lack of
00:41:18.470 –> 00:41:23.600
Trent Woloveck: Federal reform has caused
00:41:25.170 –> 00:41:37.060
Trent Woloveck: people like myself that started in this industry as a small mom and pop business to go out of business, and they will continue to go out of business.
00:41:37.370 –> 00:41:42.530
Trent Woloveck: The people that you know I’ve put these programs in place
00:41:42.940 –> 00:41:51.400
Trent Woloveck: are gone and done and out, because the capital markets are done dusted 0.
00:41:51.470 –> 00:41:53.110
Trent Woloveck: And so, even if I
00:41:53.140 –> 00:42:00.500
Trent Woloveck: even if I want a license or my you know, my brother, one of lies, there’s no money to be able to build out that license.
00:42:01.700 –> 00:42:08.920
Trent Woloveck: And so I I think that’s a super unfortunate. you know, outcome that we’ve had, and you know.
00:42:09.010 –> 00:42:17.820
Trent Woloveck: I think the industry has continued to educate around that because we we do want people to be able to
00:42:18.020 –> 00:42:22.080
Trent Woloveck: build and impact their community.
00:42:22.380 –> 00:42:32.620
Trent Woloveck: And that was the whole idea or concept, or ethos of of just cannabis in general. And so I am very hopeful that
00:42:32.710 –> 00:42:36.600
Trent Woloveck: you know, in the next 6 to 12 months
00:42:36.690 –> 00:42:41.380
Trent Woloveck: we see some form of safe banking done in past.
00:42:41.610 –> 00:42:46.100
Trent Woloveck: I still do have. I still do have hope for that.
00:42:48.100 –> 00:42:49.620
Trent Woloveck: You know, I think
00:42:49.970 –> 00:42:55.420
Trent Woloveck: rescheduling is a a very, very, very, very complex
00:42:55.690 –> 00:43:02.070
Trent Woloveck: issue that you know people are going to continue to have to look at.
00:43:03.080 –> 00:43:20.740
Trent Woloveck: you know. Fingers crossed. It turns into a political play, and not like anything else play. I saw that article saying by, and might want to move on that before 2,024, because it could tell you that if it ends with younger voters he he he played that card in 2,022 midterm.
00:43:20.880 –> 00:43:34.250
Trent Woloveck: and and it saved his ass. I I mean, outside of the Republicans voting that women shouldn’t be able to do anything with their bodies that you know they don’t want to, but let’s set that one aside. I think Cannabis was an another another big thing
00:43:34.380 –> 00:43:40.870
Jonathan Purow: smoking mirrors because a lot of it really was for, and so that was going to be my point.
00:43:40.930 –> 00:43:42.400
Trent Woloveck: Young voters.
00:43:42.440 –> 00:43:55.340
Trent Woloveck: you know my agent below I’m. 37, and below you you used to be able to make may have gotten away with that, because oh, it’s this big headline, and nobody really follows up or just kind of get swept under the rug.
00:43:56.250 –> 00:44:00.640
Trent Woloveck: People know now people know what it is you’re doing.
00:44:00.730 –> 00:44:16.030
Trent Woloveck: and if you follow through, or what that promise was made, and if you don’t follow through, they will not vote for you again. People will not vote for you again. Younger people will not vote for you again, and so you know, I I think you’re going to see
00:44:17.040 –> 00:44:19.030
Trent Woloveck: this one more grasp
00:44:19.610 –> 00:44:23.010
Trent Woloveck: of air in 2,024,
00:44:23.280 –> 00:44:28.200
Trent Woloveck: and then that balloon is gonna pop there after because you know.
00:44:29.490 –> 00:44:34.760
Trent Woloveck: I Still, I couldn’t believe it in 2020, and I can’t believe i’m about to say it again in 2,024.
00:44:36.430 –> 00:44:44.420
Trent Woloveck: Donald Trump and Joe Biden will both be older than Barack, Obama, Bill Clinton and George W. Bush.
00:44:45.890 –> 00:44:47.420
Trent Woloveck: That’s pathetic.
00:44:48.720 –> 00:44:59.420
Trent Woloveck: And so I just think, at some point there needs to be a flip, and when that Flip happens it’s going to be pretty dramatic. Let’s hope so. At least so
00:44:59.570 –> 00:45:12.900
Trent Woloveck: you know, I I throw that in the non Non- cannabis prediction. But I think you’re, you’re gonna see a a big wave of younger folks get involved in government, you know. Come 2025
00:45:12.960 –> 00:45:19.600
Trent Woloveck: and up beyond, because I just don’t think it plays anymore at all.
00:45:19.920 –> 00:45:36.930
Trent Woloveck: The the numbers are there, like you said in the polls, right, and they’re only going to keep on getting better and better, As you know, the population ages and people turn 18 and guess what more people die, too. And so that’s just a natural evolution of what’s going to happen.
00:45:37.020 –> 00:45:41.120
Jonathan Purow: I really appreciate it. Some of the real, you know, kind of
00:45:41.120 –> 00:46:02.680
Jonathan Purow: I’ve been to unintended thoughts here here, and some of the things that you’ve talked about. But it’s always a pleasure, you know, to sit down with a like minded individual, such as yourself, you know, and time is our most limited resource. So I really appreciate your taking the time, you know, to join us for this. So a big, big Thank you for that, and I think we hit our time limit. So
00:46:02.800 –> 00:46:10.060
Jonathan Purow: I really appreciate you joining Trent, and I really think that the listener is going to enjoy this conversation as much as I did so. Thanks, muddy
00:46:10.070 –> 00:46:11.630
Trent Woloveck: thanks, John. Have a great day.
00:46:11.690 –> 00:46:13.940
Jonathan Purow: All right.
DISCLAIMER: All opinions are my own, and not those of my law firm Zuber Lawler. Even though I drop knowledge bombs, the show is NOT legal advice.
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Cannaconvo with Peter Su of Green Check Verified
Cannabis Last Week with Jon Purow interviews Peter Su of Green Check Verified. Peter Su is a Senior Vice President with Green Check Verified, the top cannabis banking compliance software/consultancy in the space. A 20+ year veteran of the banking industry, Peter serves on the Banking & Financial Services committee of the National Cannabis Industry Association. He chairs the Banking and Financial Services Committee for the NYCCIA & HVCIA. He is an official member of the Rolling Stone Cannabis Culture Council. And, he is on the board of the Asian Cannabis Roundtable, serving as treasurer.
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